Part 1 – Discussing the Site
This is Part 1 of One Hour Website Makeover for the Mental Management University site and in this session we discuss the existing website branding, and then discuss the areas that can be improved on the site as well as suggest ways to generate some income. Rick and Kim Carney, the artist working on this website makeover project with us, will come back next week with their ideas.
Rick: Good evening, Lanny. How are you doing?
Lanny: I’m great. How are you doing, Rick?
Rick: You need to turn your microphone up. Way up.
Lanny: Okay, way up huh?
Rick: You’re getting closer.
Lanny: Well, I am turning…
Kim: I can do it.
Lanny: There we go. How does that sound?
Rick: Yeah, that’s good.
Lanny: Is that better? Okay.
Rick: You bet. That’s great.
Rick: So what site are we working on, Lanny?
Lanny: We’re working on my… let’s see, this site is mentalmanagementcourses.com.
Rick: Yeah, I kept calling it Mental Management University but…
Lanny: No, no… it’s Mental Management Courses, Rick. Someday we’ll switch it over but that’s where it is right now.
Rick: Server encountered an internal error, misconfiguration. This probably just means I spelled it wrong. mentalmanagementcourses.com
Lanny: That should work.
Rick: Why don’t you try it on your end?
Kim: Yeah, I got it.
Rick: Okay, I’m clearly misspelling something. Well okay, why don’t you put…
Lanny: I hit it for a second and then all of a sudden, I don’t have it now.
Kim: Mine came up, I mean, it didn’t come up in the beginning but it’s coming up now.
Rick: Oh there it is. That’s crazy. Okay.
Lanny: Yeah, I don’t know. You know, it’s (01.51). What can I say?
Rick: Okay so here we are.
Rick: So describe the kind of site we’re creating.
Lanny: Well, it’s a membership site and what we’re doing is we’re selling mental training courses for various applications and sporting business. The idea is that clients will come in and identify courses that they want to take, register, pay for them and have those delivered. Videos, online courses delivered through this site. And basically, we’re… our market is Olympic sports, archery, golf, pageantry, stage performance. We provide mental training for a lot of different applications but this is where the online courses will be presented, the membership site.
Kim: So are those courses, are those video courses or I mean, what are the courses?
Lanny: Yeah, they’re video. They’re video courses, video… what I’ve actually done is followed Rick’s tutorial on the membership sites… well, this particular you know, what we’ve got so far is just actually generated or we’re trying to follow him in the tutorial that he’s got online and to try to build… try to follow along and see if can get… see what I can get done to make this. But I’ve also got a contract with the United States or for US Archery which is an Olympic national (03.43) for archery sports and we do all the mental training for them. I’ve developed a couple of online courses for them and we’re trying to… those would be the first two courses that we will have on the site.
Kim: Is this logo? I see that on both sides, the guy with the… the (04.04) is that your logo? There is a person with a cup, like a winner’s cup coming out of his head. That’s your logo?
Lanny: Yeah, it is basically the illustration for… that we use. It is kind of a keynote illustration for that. We actually have 2 logos. We’ve got that Mental Management Systems logo that you see there on the golf site. And then we also have that other kind of a cornerstone illustration, the one with the head and the trophy. It’s kind of cornerstone illustration that we use a lot. So we use those two. And this golf side is really kind of… one of the sites we’re working on. The site that we have right now, mentalmanagement.com is our corporate site now but it’s a Druple site and I want to move away from Druple. We’ll move to WordPress so we’re just trying to get this bit working. Our overall objective is to have a membership site for our online courses and then have individual sites for the various applications where we have the big business like golf and archery and shotgun shooting and so forth.
Kim: Okay say that again. So your membership site is for your courses?
Lanny: The membership site is for our online courses. That’s really the one that I’m wanting to get up. What I’m looking for is a design that would be kind of a branded site for the courses. And once we get a nice look that we can use throughout, we’ll work on that. That’s our current corporate site and what’s wrong with that site is that it’s too busy. I’ve got all of the applications on there. There’s too much going on, too much real estate in the cornerstone illustration in the middle. Our clients are complaining that you know, there’s just too much stuff on there. They’re not… not everyone finds anything.
Kim: Really? Because I like the illustration but I’m kind of a visual person so they are complaining that they think that’s too much?
Lanny: Well, the problem basically that we’re facing is Mental Management works for everybody. We have a lot of different client applications. So if you’re a golfer and if you come to the site and you see all the stuff with shooting sports and dog sports and business applications and all you’re interested in is golf, you kind of want to leave and you know, well this isn’t really golf. Where is the golf at? Maybe I can’t find it even though that’s number 1. So that’s why I built the golf site, going through Rick’s tutorials on the eCommerce tutorials to build the golf site. So my idea was that we… instead of having one site does it all, that we have multiple sites that specialize in the markets where we have a lot of attraction like golf and like shooting sports and so forth. And then maybe one site that they go to for online training and that’s the one that we’re trying to get a branded look at. And then maybe I can export that look and I’ll tell all the other sites that that kind of looked cool. And I’m not disenchanted with the way this one looks, just the one you’re looking at now. But I know that you can do a better job than I can.
Kim: Actually, I thought this one looked very nice. I thought it was very organized. I like the colors and it looked really nice. So on your Mental Management University, the first thing that you would see, would you have a list of all your courses so people aren’t confused? Would have like just a whole list of what’s going on, what you’re offering?
Lanny: On Mental Management University?
Lanny: This particular site is… I haven’t had anybody to look at this because I haven’t really told anybody that it’s there. This is basic. Where I’ve gotten so far is just the… I’m just trying to make a shot at following on Rick’s tutorials on his… and so it really even doesn’t even look like them. This is just my little winging it to try to find something to look at. But… and I’m not… I mean, there’s just not much there yet.
Kim: Right, of course. But would you have a list of all of your courses? Would you want to see a list of all your courses like the first thing when you came on to this landing page, your front page?
Lanny: Yeah. Where we’re at right now in courses is we’re just starting to develop courses. I’ve only got 2 that are finished. But over time, I expect to have courses available for multiple sports and you know, maybe 20-30 courses as we move further along now that I know what I’m doing about how to develop courses. Initially, when I did the tutorial, Rick taught quite a bit of stuff on forums and things like that. And I thought, well maybe initially, maybe I’d forgo with the forum just to get the thing up and get it working. And then once I’m comfortable when everything is working, maybe I can add a forum later. But I wasn’t… I don’t know that I want a forum initially but…
Rick: Well, I do still think though that on this, the homepage for the Mental Management courses, I think we’re still we’re looking for a way in which this can be a landing page. If the main purpose for this page is to get someone to sign up for a free course so that you can get their name and email address then there needs to be you know… well, maybe that’s not the main purpose for this. But what you need is essentially a rationale for why they should either sign in to a course or why they should take the free course. And so rather than just being sort of an information direction place like this is, right? This really sort of… I mean, this is essentially a great big menu telling you where you can go and what you can look at. But it doesn’t… there’s no real sales pitch here.
Lanny: No, it’s been a problem for us. I think we’re pretty good at providing content but we’ve never really been good at making compelling sales pitches to people. And we’ve had trouble with that Druple site with… we never really had any kind of SEO attempt at making that available to other folks. And so you know, we’ve had actually got clients that are web gurus calling us up and saying, “Well, you guys are really stupid. You know, you’ve got really good products but your SEO sucks and it’s not very compelling.” And you know, I’m kind of hurt kind of hearing. I kind of like to have something like managed that it really is good and really is compelling. The reason we will, the truth at the start was because we were using all HTML… I’m not old but a Dreamweaver-type of site and I was the only one that could change it and we needed a content management system method so that other people in the office can go and change you know, content. But after working with Thesis for a little while, I realized that, boy, I should have been using WordPress and Thesis instead of Druple. At least, that’s what I think.
Lanny: So that’s where we are but I’m losing money every day because I don’t have a site that is optimized and a site that’s easy to use and meeting the needs of my clients.
Kim: Do you have testimonials from your clients?
Lanny: Do I what?
Lanny: Yeah, on the corporate site that I have now.
Lanny: Yeah and that’s another thing that I wanted to do with this is I wanted to have you know, utilize testimonials. And the idea is that we have multiple sites for their specific sports that we service. Now, testimonials… I mean, you know, our mental training program is kind of the number 1 mental training program for sports. It’s not everything but…
Kim: I mean, can’t you just say like a little sliding slideshow with the golfer that used your course and a little testimonial and then the archer that used your… I mean, that’s what I could see. Like these are real people that used your course that are doing much better now. You know what I mean? Something kind of visual for real people that are using your courses and learning something.
Lanny: Sure. We’ve got the number 1 Olympic archer in the world who is our client.
Kim: Really? Well, that should be in there.
Lanny: We have a PGA tour player that won last week on the PGA tour is our client. We’ve got the number 1 (14.21) in the world is our client.
Kim: And you have photos of them?
Lanny: Do what?
Kim: Do you have photos of them?
Kim: Oh great. That’s perfect.
Lanny: I’ve got photos. I’ve got testimonials. I’ve got these guys…
Kim: What do you think Rick? Don’t you think… can you see that?
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was going to say that this…
Kim: It’s all visual.
Rick: That this page here should give people a reason to look further. It should reinforce their authority and it should give people an idea of you know, what’s available to them. And so for example you know, shopping cart, member login, that kind of stuff, none of that is going to be necessary on the front page. There should be a login link since it is a logged in based system but it shouldn’t be prominent. It should just be easily accessible. And so a slider with images and testimonials…
Kim: Of famous people.
Of all famous people. Do you have a permission issue on that tough, Lanny?
Lanny: No, I don’t have a problem. All these guys will come through all for me.
Kim: That’s great, I mean, that’s great right there. That’s perfect.
Rick: So that’s what you do. We pick up… I mean, the page needs to be designed right now for 2 products, right? But it should have the ability to easily expand to the rest of the curriculum as the curriculum emerges. And so what we’re talking about is 2 levels of landing pages where we have the landing page where it’s you know, the landing page for the whole site which is of course, the home page. And then we have the landing pages for each product so each product page. And I guess actually, we have 3 products right now because you do have a simple course for free or is that not quite ready?
Lanny: It’s not quite ready yet but I mean, that’s something that you know, I know we need. I mean, this is to grab the emails people that come to the course. I know I need to develop that and I can develop that really quickly. It’s just the… the other courses’ immediate need for the archery courses because we’re on contract with the Olympic Archery Association so we need to get that developed.
Kim: Does that link off to an archery page… does that link off or does that all stay here when you have archery and golf? I mean, I know you’ve got the golf and…
Rick: It’s all going to stay here. It’s just going to be protected so it won’t be visible unless people have paid their money and have signed in.
Kim: Got you.
Rick: You know, it does seem to me like you have a fairly strong logo here and the logo probably shows up… I mean you know Kim, there’s an awful lot of graphics here. They… for the audio CDs and for the books and that kind of stuff you know, they’ve got… they clearly have plenty of… that’s crazy.
Kim: Why is that doing that?
Rick: Ipower’s probably just having a problem right now.
Lanny: Yeah, we’ve talked about getting me off of Ipower.
Lanny: I’ve had a lot of trouble with Ipower shutting down (18.04).
Kim: So there’s a lot of graphics that go back to the CDs, the books, the what else, audio, CDs, what else?
Lanny: We have a lot of products. I mean, if you go in our corporate site, you’ll see we’ve got tons of audios. We’ve got downloads. We’ve got books.
Kim: And that’s what you’re offering on your Mental Management University. That’s what they’ll be paying for.
Lanny: I envision Mental Management University as being a place where you go for online courses and then you pick up the other products. I mean, I said, “Maybe this is not the way to do it.” But I thought about you know, all these other products that we… they’ll be on another site that we’d linked over to, there’d be on to those other products where Mental Management University would really just be where you go and take online courses. I don’t know if that’s the best way to do it. I mean, we have tried the idea where we’ve got… everything’s on one side. I mean, I don’t have any online courses available on this site because I’ve never developed any. But I do have on the site is downloads, audios, audio CDs, books and all our seminars and all that kind of stuff. But it’s for all these different applications. And I’m just afraid that my clients would come in here and okay, I’m only interested in golf and I see all these other stuff and it’s kind of wanting to know what you have just for golf. I just want to go there. So I thought then maybe we could get bigger markets like golf and archery and shotgun shooting and we separate those in some kind of branded look and that’s what that one is.
Kim: And if your navigation… I mean, do we have a navigation that’s just so big that it’s like, it says golf and archery, you know what I mean? Like you’re not confused about what you’re looking at. You know, it really breaks it down visually like all of a sudden, you just know what you’re looking at. It’s like you don’t have a whole list of navigation thing.
Lanny: Are you asking me a question or…
Kim: No, I’m just… no, I’m just making…
Lanny: I can’t hear real good but yeah… you know, I’m a little bit confused about how to deal with my company in the sense that I know that I have to have online courses and that’s the future of what we want to do. But I’m trying to find the best way to be able to tell everybody that, “Hey look! We have a lot of different applications for our products.” But we don’t want to confuse you. We want to make it easier for you but you know, how do we take that person who’s looking for our products and get them where they really need to be, where they’re not confused?
Rick: Well, I think that for example, if you’re on the… if you’re taking the archery course, we could easily you know, put widgets in the course, point them in the direction of books, audio, CDs and that sort of stuff on archery and or sort of the general topics that maybe part of that. So you’ve got the course but then you’ve got the potential reference material that goes along with it. And so you could link off to those things inside the course itself.
And we could probably also have, at the university, a link to all of our products. But it wouldn’t be the prominent link, right? It wouldn’t be… right now, you’ve got a link up there called products but since we’re at Mental Management University, maybe you say, colleges or you know, maybe you say courses. You know, somebody is suggesting, one of the listeners is suggesting one of a you know, the university and college hierarchical relationship where university is a bunch of different colleges. So you’ve got the archery college and the golf college and you know…
Lanny: Yeah. That’s great. Great idea.
Rick: You could easily do something like that and in fact, if you did that, maybe that product page for the golf college so Mental Management College of Golf as one page. The main selling item is the course but then there are the other products available from there as well, or at least a link to those other products.
Lanny: Yeah. That’s great.
Rick: Yeah, I think that’s a very good idea.
Kim: I’m furiously writing all that down.
Rick: What we’re really looking at here is 2 different sales pages. You’re looking at the first sales page that draws somebody into the site and that’s the homepage. And then you have the 2nd sales page which is selling the specific college, the specific…
Kim: You pick a college or…
Rick: Yeah, that specific college and then that is all focused on selling the training course for that. And you might… I mean, I love the idea and Lanny, if you could hook up with Kim and give her some images, that would be good for example, if we had say, 4 images of testimonials so we could mock up a slider.
Lanny: Do you want images and testimonials of various sports or do you want archery or how do you want that down?
Kim: Well, the sports that you… the courses that you’re selling on your Mental Management University, people that are a part of that.
Lanny: Yeah I mean, I’ve got plans to develop courses in a lot of different areas but right now, initially, in this… until I can… as soon as I finish these archery courses you know, I want those to go up. But right after I finish that then I’ll follow them with golf and then shotgun.
Kim: Well I think the images of anyone that’s you know, pretty successful like what you’ve taught them would you know, those would be great images to have in testimonials.
Lanny: We’ve got the number 1 archer in the world, our client for one.
Kim: Can’t get any better than that.
Lanny: I mean we… we’ve got plenty of high powered golfers and high powered shotgun shooters. Images, testimonials and I can find those…
Kim: Okay, I’d love those. Yeah, that would be great.
Lanny: You know, like that one quote that Ben Crane who won on the PGA tour last week uses on my golf site was a really good quote and it’s on the homepage. You know, if you’re in sports psychology management achieving mental consistency, we could (25.40) sport.
Kim: It’s beautiful.
Lanny: He’s hot right now because he just won last week. I just need to tell him, “You know, I want you to win every week so it makes my site look good.”
Rick: Yeah right.
Kim: I hope he mentions you in his press conference.
Lanny: Well, he is a… they all have a… the golfers have a problem with doing that. They’ve got a…
Kim: Right. They’ve got so many sponsors and stuff.
Lanny: You know, they’ve got people. They’re wearing… they’ve got people paying them hundreds of thousands of dollars to wear their… and they actually pay me to take their courses so it’s a little bit of a stretch if you ask them to give me a huge endorsement on TV. But occasionally, they do without me asking which is really kind of nice. But they will give me an endorsement that I can use in my website so that’s not a problem, an endorsement from my clients.
Kim: And you know, I just remembered, you’re from Flower Mount, right?
Lanny: Yes, I am.
Kim: I grew up in Flower Mount. I went in high school in Denton and lived in Flower Mount.
Lanny: Oh yeah? Where do you live?
Kim: I’m in Seattle right now.
Lanny: You’re in Seattle. That’s right up straight.
Kim: Yeah. But Flower Mount, I love Flower Mount.
Lanny: Flower Mount and Seattle, Texas are real close together. I don’t know what your problem is.
Kim: I love Flower Mount. Now, wait a minute. I love what Flower Mount used to be which was…
Lanny: You keep telling everybody how close everything is then.
Kim: Flower Mount just used to be just horse ranches and fields. And the last time I was there, it was just all developed and it was terrible.
Lanny: Yeah, it’s grown up.
Kim: Yeah, that’s really sad for me. Anyway, sorry about that. I just kind of…
Rick: It’s the bane of middle age, Kim.
Kim: Thank you. It’s my senior moment. Pardon me.
Lanny: Oh God, a picture with a hearing aid. That’s me.
Rick: So what else do you want to tell us, Lanny?
Lanny: Well, one of the things that I’m not good at that I want to be good at is I want to make the information compelling to the reader. I think have the tendency to tell them what we teach instead of telling them why they should buy it. And so you know, I think that if you look at our site, we tend to have a lot of text but not a lot of compelling… the kind of text that make people want to order where the two areas that I feel are deficient in my company is making the information on the site compelling to the reader and also making it accessible in the sense that either from an SEO standpoint or making more… make it easier to find us and easier to be happy when you get there. Those are the areas… we have a lot of great clients. We’re very successful in what we do but you know, there’s a different skillset between delivering a service and then marketing yourself and we’re just not very good at marketing ourselves and I’d like to be better at it.
And you know, that probably means you need some help from a copywriter.
Kim: Right, an editor.
Rick: Well, not just an editor but somebody who understands how to translate what you do into what they need. Because you know, part of the problem when you have a good product and I find myself doing this on my site all the time, when you have a good product, you have this tendency to talk about your product. But really, I think what people need when they come to your site is to hear about themselves. They need to see themselves in the story that’s being told and they need to see their problem and you know, see the unique opportunity for resolution of that problem rather than… well, and so the difficulty is in writing about your product from their perspective you know, not your own. I can honestly say I’m absolutely no good at it all and if I made any money at this business, I would be hiring somebody to help me with it. But you know, it’s important I think, to be able to tell a story that resonates with the person that is looking at the site and that resolves the problem that they have, whether it’s token you know, on the green or it’s having you know, up days and down days and different competitions or whatever it happens to be. You know, there’s an anxiety, there’s a problem, there’s a need that they’re looking to fill when they come to the site. And they need to see themselves in the description of what’s available to them. And so it needs to be more focused on them than on details of your products at least, on some level. I mean, obviously, everybody’s going to want to see that, okay well it’s got 3 CDs or whatever. We’ve got 24 hours of video but the metrics aren’t nearly as important as you know, when you take the golf swing or you know, or you’re choking on the green. I don’t know. You know… but the description of their pain.
Lanny: The other issue that we’re facing is that there are sites out there. There are people out there who don’t have anywhere near the credibility or the (31.50) in sports that we have that that’s all they do. All they have is hype on their site and they have absolutely nothing behind it. In other words, it’s all hype, hype, hype… here’s what we can do, we can make your life wonderful. We can solve all your problems and that kind of stuff. And then when you order their product, you find out there’s nothing there. And I don’t want to sound like them. At the same time, I can’t you know, put them to sleep when I read my work. So it’s somewhere in between. What really separates us from the sports psychologists and everybody else and the reason that true players come to us, we train the Navy SEALS and the United States Secret Service, that’s really you know, high-powered guys who can have a lot…they can hire anybody they want… is that our program actually works and it actually is something that I use. I won a gold medal in the Olympics and the sports psychologists, to them, it’s there. And for us, we’ve actually used it, first, to win on all levels. And I don’t think we tell that story well enough and the fact that what really separates us… I’ve tried to do that in the first page of the golf site but you know, you almost need…I don’t know, some words or some way to call attention to that. But I don’t really… I haven’t really found a way to do it.
Kim: Well, but do you have a client list of all of those you’re talking about the… what did you say… oh the Navy SEAL. I mean, do you have a client list that sort of built up like that?
Lanny: I have a client list on my corporate site, yeah.
Kim: Yeah because that’s pretty impressive, right? So is it… is that just a… what is it, CEO thing? What would that be?
Rick: You’ve got 2 different things going on in this conversation. One of them is how do you convince the machines that what you have is what the person’s looking for. So that’s Search Engine Optimization part, right? That’s getting the text on the page in the right way so that when somebody says, “You know, I’m choking on my golf game” or whatever it is, “I need some help with this”, that when they start searching, Google recognizes that what they’re searching for is you.
But then convincing the machine that you’ve got the right content on the page is different than convincing the viewer that they can trust you and that they like and that you understand their problem and that you have a solution to it. And that… I mean, I really do think you should… you know, you don’t have to use the guys on the you know, who go from selling supersonic golf clubs to water purifiers to whatever. You know, you can… but you should probably have some help from a writer who is comfortable writing a sales copy that is similar to what you’re comfortable with. I took a course from a guy named John Carlson who is one of those hype-type writers. And it was an expensive course and I learned quite a bit and I’ve employed some of it. But on the other hand, I’m not you know, terribly comfortable with that style of sales. So I recognize the need to try and find a good copywriter than can write copy for me or that can help me write copy that doesn’t make it sound like… doesn’t have the hype to it. Because the problem is that there are 1,0001 people out there selling hyped copywriting services and copywriting courses. And what you end up sounding like is every other you know, every other ebook, video course, whatever with Digg you know, spectacular-sounding claims but no real substance.
Kim: What makes them apart from all of those others, he does have these people who…
Kim: So I mean, if you had like video testimony from them, that would just be great. Video testimonial?
Rick: Sure. Here’s Lanny on the Golf channel.
Kim: There you go. I saw that.
Lanny: And that is huge. I don’t know if you’ve seen that… but you’d get that look because that didn’t cost me a dime. The Golf channel did that and if I had hired somebody to write a commercial for me, they could have done a better job than that. It’s just… I mean, you’ve got PGA tour players just (36.46) all the pieces. The Golf channel is more than complimentary and it’s just awesome.
Kim: Are you mentioned in other publications? I mean, should have like a… sort of a media link where you’re mentioned in some magazines or newspaper or… I mean, do you have that many publication links that you should have that up?
Lanny: Do I have what?
Kim: You know, when you’re mentioned…
Lanny: No, we have a blog but on this… you know… that’s the other issue. I mean, this site that you’re looking at right now is not optimized at all. It’s just you know we… I actually haven’t spent any money optimizing or spending time optimizing because I wanted to move away from this one…
Kim: But like the Golf channel where you’re mentioned on the Golf channel, are you in any other publications, any other magazines? Do you have articles that are written about you in other publications that you can have sort of a media link where you’ve been mentioned about? You know what I mean?
Lanny: Yeah sure. I mean, we were written up in D magazine which is a fairly big magazine here. There’s this other publication there. I’ve got a Wall Street publication so…
Kim: Oh my God, there you go. I mean, you should have those listed.
Lanny: Yeah. There’s quite a bit. It’s all around golf only because that seems to be you know, sort of the… which is fine with us. I mean you know, we love working that market.
Kim: And you have links to those? Do you have links to those, the Wall Street Journal and the D magazine and all those?
Lanny: Basically, it was just… I don’t even know if those links are still active. Basically, they… I don’t have a link to the New York Times article…
Kim: But do you have a New York Times… do you have the article that you can shoot and photograph where it mentions you?
Lanny: Oh sure.
Lanny: Yeah, sure. And the D magazine, we could very easily scan it and put it.
Kim: Yeah. No, it’s perfect. That would be good.
Lanny: Yeah, we can do that.
Rick: Yeah. Okay well, Kim, do you have enough to go on?
Kim: I think so. My head’s kind of spinning right now but I think I do. Yeah, I think so.
Rick: Okay well, let’s have fun with it here the next few days and see what we come up with.
Kim: Okay, that sounds good.
Rick: I mean, I’m really excited about this project. You know, it’s a good wrap up for this series. You know, we end up with 4 significantly different sites that are doing different things and have a pretty you know, different stylistic needs. So I’m… I think it’s going to be great. Any other parting comments anybody make or…
Kim: Yeah, I just want to get… I mean, you can hook us up together with email so I can get the information I need.
Rick: Yeah, I’ll do that.
Okay. Well then, thank you very much, Lanny. We’ll be back… well, Kim will be in touch with you here tomorrow but we’ll be back next week to take a look at what she comes up with.
Lanny: Sounds great.
Rick: And thank you Kim for joining me this evening.